QUESTIONS FOR DR. STEPHEN GILL
United
Minds for Peace Society
1. Let's say you were to talk to a layman, how would
you go about introducing yourself and your duties thereof?
A. I am an Indo/Canadian poet and writer. My
name is Stephen Gill and I write for world peace. I believe that peace
is the way to the holistic
healing of humankind.
2. Do you think within the time-frame that you've
occupied such space, you have done enough (fulfilled) from what's been expected
of you?
A. According to The
Random House Dictionary of the English Language, enough means “adequate for
the want or need.” Webster’s
Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language defines enough in
the same words. The Oxford Dictionary says that enough means “as many or
as much as somebody needs or wants.”
Considering what I expect from myself and what
the world needs, I am not able to do enough because of some
impediments and lack of direction. I have discussed some of these impediments
in my prefaces and also in interviews.
What’s been expected of me, I can
say that the harvest is in a colossal growth. The world needs many Stephen Gills to do the
work. It is beyond my mental and physical limitations to achieve what I have been wanting to achieve.
I
do not see my robins (poems) flying as high, nobly and gracefully as I
wish them to do, though I give my
passionate care that is based on the solidity
of dedication. I eat my food and sleep for my energy and save every
possible minute to give to my robins. I often miss opportunities to socialize
and family get-togethers, as well as TV shows to give time to them. This has
been the pattern of my life year after year. Still I am behind my horizon. Most
of my time was taken and is still taken to a lesser extent by removing the
impediments of my early childhood and what comes with the family heritage. It needs more adjustments and sacrifices on my
part. I feel as a child who is flying a kite that faces
unfriendly winds and that needs the constant maneuvering of fingers.
3. "Writing is
a painful process. To bring out
something that is within is not that easy". Why isn't it easy to bring out something that's
within and why do you say writing is painful hence joyful?
A. To bring out
something that is
within is abstract. It is in the form of ideas, experiences and
notions. I call them the god within. To be able to paint a copy of this god within,
an artist needs skills. A poet uses his imagination and the skills of the
language to use in different ways to paint the god within.
Language is the product of the
intellect that helps to paint
the intangible tangibly, using
the tool of comparison buttressed by symbols. In a way, every word that
we use is a symbol. Take the case of water. The word water is not the liquid we
need to quench our thirst. It is a symbol. No matter how hard we try, the word
water cannot quench our thirst.
When a poet says that “my love is a
red, red rose” he is
trying to compare two things. This symbol or metaphor cannot
stand for the actual object of beauty. The same can be applied to the case of a
potter. The actual pot is within the potter, who tries to give it a shape. The potter may try different ways to copy
what is within. It depends on his education, training, dedication and several
other factors to make the resemblance closer. Still the copy bears only a
resemblance of the
exact object.
It is a painful process of trials
and errors for a poet to
paint indelible pictures hung within the walls of the poet’s
blood. The process of this painting bears similarities with Carl Gustav Jung’s theory of the
individuation process that is the integration between the conscious and
unconscious features of the inner self. The story does not end here.
A poet constantly faces the demons
of dry spells and
depression because of his or her limitations to bring out what is within. It is a painful reality of a poet’s life.
Just the awareness of the survival of this god within the blood is not enough. As a
skillful fisher, a dedicated poet is constantly searching for spots, ways and tools to
ensnare the creatures of the water.
The god within, abstract, can manifest
itself through unconscious means of dreams, visions, hallucinations and so on.
On the other hand, the means of a poet are deliberate to form a dialogue with the within.
Formation of this dialogue or the mastering of the tools is painful—a hard struggle even to catch glimpses of this reality. This painting is a copy because it is
manifested through symbols-- conscious means of a poet. To master and try these
conscious means are painful.
These means become more painful when
a dedicated poet paints in an individual way. His writing is tight
without the use of cliché. The process
causes several wrong
turns before finding the right one. It is often a frustrating process. It needs
extraordinary patience, deep thinking, wider studies and more explorations. I
have written about this sweating in search for fresh symbols in my prefaces of
the collections of my poems.
It becomes more painful when an artist
tries to find time to paint while facing the demons of daily life. Turning ones
back to the pleasures is itself painful. It requires sacrifices, adjustments
and a total unshaken dedication that becomes an obsession even at a young age
when the worldly pleasure are difficult to keep at a distance. Struggle and
suffering are painful.
Poetry needs dedication and
dedication is a preoccupation that becomes an obsession and obsessions cause
intense emotional and economic loss and where there is loss there is pain and
suffering. This painful process of a
dedicated poet is like the painful process of a mother. A poet gives birth to
poems that are full of life. I call them robins. When these robins are properly
fed and nourished, their feathers become stronger to be able to fly
independently in the borderless skies of freedom and beauty. This creation is an
incarnation of the god within. Just
giving birth is not enough. To take care of them and let them grow to be
independent is also painful.
There is pain in longing or desire
as Buddha has said. Suffering and desire go together. One way to get rid of the
suffering is to get rid of desire. A dedicated being will not let the desire go away
because that desire is his or her obsession. When a poet appears to be doing
nothing he is still involved with his desire.
When Gautama Buddha sat under a tree for days
and nights without eating and drinking, he was enlightened. He came to know
that desire is responsible for suffering.
In another story, a Zen master was
walking with his disciples along a river. A young disciple began to pester him
with a question that was how to be enlightened. At one point the master grabbed
the young disciple and held him under the water. The disciple began to throw
his hands and legs in desperation to save himself. But
the master held him under the water for a while. The disciple tried to free
himself, but could not. When he felt that he was about to be drowned and die,
the Zen master let him go. He came to the surface and began to breathe.
The master asked him about the
thoughts he had when he was under the water. He said that first he had many.
They disappeared at once when he was about to be drowned. He had only one
longing at that time and that was for air. The master replied that was
his enlightenment.
I will call this enlightenment a
passion or complete dedication or obsession. Obsession is the extreme of
desire. When someone desires something with intensity, that
desire become a passion that causes suffering. When the passion becomes the
goal of a poet, there is suffering or pains and in those pains there is liberation and birth.
Passion is from the Greek word “pascho” that means to suffer. The Latin word “passio” refers to Christ’s mortal suffering. For me poetry is a passion and passion is an
extreme kind of attachment and attachment is suffering.
When a poet is hit with the bug of this passion, his or her suffering changes
into the emotions of self-satisfaction
in that attainment. To paint the god within in one form or another needs
energy and energy is never destroyed. It transforms. It assumes the shape of a
poem and the poem is self-satisfaction, also called liberation or joy or peace.
A deep attachment or obsession
itself is responsible for pains. Dedicated poets are attached to their creative process. They are as drowning
individuals who long for air. As long as such poets are drowned in the waters of creativity,
they suffer, longing for the oxygen to complete the process. There is joy for
them in hope and in the anticipation of completion. That joy provides energy to
move forward to finish their
works. It is like the suffering of the birthing of a new life.
When someone asked Buddha after his
enlightenment what he gained from it, he said he instead lost. He lost his
ignorance and dreams for the sake of enlightenment that gave him bliss. There is also pain in physical exercise, but
also joy. In the same way there is joy in the creative process while going
through the pains of the exercise of the creative process to give birth to a
being that is poetry.
4. How do you differentiate between 'good' and 'bad
poetry'?
A. Instead of dividing
poetry into good and bad, I will say the poetry that moves me and the poetry
that moves me not. Poetry is beauty and I have criteria to create a beautiful poem. My creative
creations are my robins and I want them to be stronger and graceful.
I have set some rules for myself to
nourish them. I apply these rules to any
poetry that I read. If any poem does not honor these rules, I consider it bad. I have discussed these rules in my prefaces,
interviews and also in some articles. These rules are for myself
and I believe these rules will prove helpful to other beginning poets.
5. You mentioned that the 20th century was the second
Renaissance for poetry. What do you see or think the 21st century will produce
and centuries following suit?
A. The renaissance of
poetry will flower further in the twentieth-first century because of the
digital technology that has made it easier to bring out even unpalatable dishes
to a much wider population. Some will admire those unpalatable dishes for one
reason or the other. It will not produce many prominent poets but it would
certainly produce a number of poets. In
this jungle of numbers,
it would be difficult to know who is worthy and who is not. Those
who are aware of the tools of the digital technology shall win for a while, in
spite of the fact they are not good poets. This feast of festival of poetry
will keep flourishing.
At the same time there will be
serious poets of passion who will keep working like others who have worked in
every age and nation in the past. Some will be like the seeds that fall on the
rocky land and do not grow. Some seeds will fall under bushes and those bushes
will not let them grow. Some will grow in the open air where visitors seldom
step. It will take time, but eventually they will come to the attention of
serious visitors after some time.
6. You mentioned that "Poetry is an art and you
do not try to break rules of the art for the sake of propagation of your
views". Could you please tell us what these rules in poetry are?
A. I write about peace
and peace-related subjects. To convey my message in poetry, I have drafted some
rules. I call my poems robins, as I have mentioned somewhere also. I prepare
food for them with the following four truths. My four basic truths are like the
four hands of the Indian mythological goddess Sarswati who
is considered consort of Brahma, the god of creation. These four basic truths
on which the theory of my poetry is based can also be called the four sisters of
my creation. Listed below, I have discussed
them in different forms in my prefaces:
(1) Spirit is the
first truth. Spirit is an immaterial force within a human that
gives life to the body. One can call it dedication or passion or an obsession
for writing. It includes editing to give life to my poetry. Editing is the
outcome of passion or obsession.
I test my poetry in the furnace of editing to get rid of
anything that is dross. As a poet I try not to be tired of editing to take out
extra and redundant words, though I do it in prose also to a lesser
extent.
While editing, I try to find out if there was a clear
reason for writing that piece. In other words, there should be one main message
or theme in the
piece. A lack of clarity about the theme or message shows that the poet is not
clear in the mind. I believe that a poem should revolve around one idea at a
time.
All these attempts are to make the
spirit more energetic.
(2) The second basic
truth is imagery because it is the highest form of metaphor. It is a tool that helps a poet to represent the god within.
(3) The third basic
truth helps me to get rid of anything that is stale. I am an enemy of overused expressions that have lost
their freshness. It is artistic to use
an expression or imagery for the first time, but its subsequent use shows the
laziness and ignorance of the poet.
(4) The function of the
fourth basic truth is to differentiate poetry from prose. A poem should be
reasonably more tight and compact than the prose. I
take out unnecessary, redundant words and details. I believe that economy of
expression is more important in a poem than in prose because it lends grace.
7. Your type of spiritual liberation (Giving birth to
thoughts and feelings). Is there some sort of parallel inter-relations to
perspiration or simply a creative expression?
A. To give birth to
something is liberation from suffering. Before the birth takes place there is
desire or longing to give birth. This extreme of desire is suffering. To get
rid of this desire is to give birth and this is liberation. It is an experience
of joy. I have discussed it in detail elsewhere.
8. Your views on the World Government Unity formation which somehow
banishes the platform and stands of the UN government which according to you, promotes vicious and manipulative ideologies by corrupt
philosophers. What do you verdict should be implemented in that regard and
should the World Government Unity form soon, what would you advice should first
be prioritised continent to continent?
A. I fully support the
United Nations Organization and shall keep supporting it. There is no other international organization
at present that is more representative and more respectable than the UN is. It
is in the interest of democratic values and also in the interest of the safety
of the earth to support the UN.
The UN is on the way to be a democratic
parliament of the nations of the world. I want this parliament (UN) to be more
democratic, representative of their nations, and more powerful. At present, the veto power of five nations stands in the
way of justice or rule by the majority. Just one nation that has a veto power
can nullify the decision of the majority for personal or other reasons. It has
happened in the past and will continue happening, unless something is done to
balance this power of the five nations.
Except peace keeping forces that
depend on the mercy of nations, the UN has no force of its own to implement its
decisions. Also it should have one or several courts that have more power to implement their decisions.
The main goal of the parliament of
nations would be to outlaw wars between and among nations. The one way is to
order and convince nations to do away with their military powers. Nations
should be allowed to keep a police force to maintain law and order situations
within their borders, something along the lines of the provinces of every
country. The military is at the command of the central governments. In the same
way the nations will become like provinces to maintain law and order situations
within their lands. The military will be at the command of the central government,
called the parliament of the nations that will be the democratically elected
world government. It will be an association of partners to keep peace in the
world.
To form this parliament, its
representatives should be directly elected by the nations they will represent.
I believe that democracy is a
journey. There are ways and ways to improve democracy. Every democratic nation
has political parties who have their own platform to improve the working of democracy
within the framework of the democratic laws. Intellectuals and international
political parties will work peacefully and lawfully to work for the betterment
of the world parliament.
I believe that a democracy usually
does not prepare itself for war and to attack their neighbours.
One way to abolish the danger of wars is to form a democratic world government.
It is not impossible because now the world has means to achieve it. The world
has moved towards that direction after the formation of a parliament of
Wars have not solved problems.
Billions and trillions of dollars that are wasted by nations on preparing for wars
and on actual wars, can be invested in schools,
colleges, health facilities, betterment of children, to grow more food and to
bring in an era of more health, understanding and prosperity.
In the last several decades, world
military expenditures have increased by many times. At the same time, nuclear
weapons have considerably surpassed the explosive power of the bomb that was
dropped on
Peace makers have been warning the
world against the catastrophic results of armament. They advocate arms reduction.
In practice, all the countries are seeking peace through armament that is an
exercise in futility. This has set a vicious circle to break. International control of some deadly weapons have proved fruitless and
inoperative. There have been many agreements in many forms in the past and all
of them have failed to slow down the arms race.
In the dangerous world, when so many
sovereign nations accept no any authority above them, this arms race is not
stoppable. Moreover, these sovereign national governments have been violating
human rights brutally. Some nations are open to arbitrary arrests, executions
without trials according to international standards, and tortures. Even courts
and legal systems under these governments have become the puppet of the dictators
or the fanatics. These oppressions and executions have led to mass exodus,
particularly of the minorities, creating refugee problems. Suppression of human
rights and mass exodus of the minorities have happened in several nations.
Under this situation, the United
Nations Organization is a ray of hope, although its decision
are not strictly binding. In the
first place, it was not formed to exercise its authority over other nations or
to interpret law and enforce it on others. Now the time has come for this
organization to be reformed according to the changing situations. One way is to
democratize and federalize it, empowering it with the authority to enforce its
decisions.
9. You mention that when you write, ‘a process takes
place hence you always review your material from a third person's perspective
to criticise yourself. In this context, would you say
you write for yourself or
the public?
A. There is no point in getting my poetry published if I write for
myself. I can burn my poems after their creation. But that is not the case. My
creations are my children. I care for them as a mother does after giving birth
to her offsprings. I take care of them when someone
publishes them. I will see how my children are being treated by publishers. I
try to get involved with publishing at as many phases as possible.
I write for people.
That is why I get them published and have them widely distributed for sharing.
Before publishing or sharing, I review them to present the best to the public. I do
it to the best of my abilities. I am a human and possess weaknesses as other
human beings do. I acknowledge that I am not perfect. Only the Divine Creator
is perfect. I try to be as close as possible to perfection. That is why I edit.
10. With all due respect, are you trustworthy?
A. Yes, I am.
11. With all due respect, how important is your name?
A. My name is my identity. What is important is
peace. I believe that peace can be achieved only through peaceful means. I want
this peace for myself, for my children and children’s children and for the
whole world to be able to enjoy their life in a meaningful way.
12. What message would you like to convey to literary
patrons and everyone reading this?
A. Patrons provide encouragement
and usually financial assistance, because artists are engaged in a profession
that needs dedication and is not profitable from the point of money. William
Shakespeare and Ben Jonson enjoyed the support of
patrons.
I will ask patrons to continue
patronizing artists because without their fireplace these artists will not receive the
warmth that is needed for their growth. Artists always needed patrons and they
need them even now. In early days, rulers and aristocrats patronized them. In
Indian history, King Harsha Vardhan
was a writer and
patronized writers. In
Supporters are needed even more now
because of the globalization and leisure that is the outcome of the progress of
science and technology. However, supporters have changed. Instead of courts,
aristocrats, churches, temples and kings, there are charitable organizations
and governments at all levels to do this work.
As I have mentioned, the role of
patrons or supporters has been assumed now also by governments. Governments
under democracies have arts councils to help poets and other artists. Art is life
and beauty. The patrons who support artists in any form support life itself.
Their role provides oxygen.
Individuals still occupy an
important place as patrons.
13. It’s been an honour and a privilege communicating with you. Best wishes
in your endeavors.
A. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to share my
views with readers.
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*UNITED Minds for Peace is an international
NGO that is headquartered in
Mr. Sonnet Mondal
(General Secretary): sonnetnationalpoet@poetic.com